Musings on Rt. 3

The toll road is necessary not only because of the back up on Route 3 but Route 17 as well.  Everyone who travels north on I 95 beyond Wash D. C. will pay tolls in Maryland and northward.
If the general public has to foot the bill for roads in those states than I think it is only far that we subsidize our roads as well.  However, I think for those who will be required to travel the toll road for work within the state of VA pay a lesser rate than someone who is traveling to Wash, D. C for work. 

the purpose of the MPO – FAMPO – is to look at the region from a transportation perspective and what has happened in my humble opinion is that they have focused on the toll road while dismissing other potential solutions – alternatives if you will – which is what the NEPA is supposed to do – not dismiss alternatives BEFORE NEPA.

A southbound slip ramp to Harrison Road WOULD take evening Route 3 traffic headed westbound to Salem Church.

About 1/2 of the evening westbound Route 3 traffic gets off at Salem Church to head south.

I think what people want to see in a opened minded..comprehensive approach to consider various alternatives.

15 million is a lot of money and once NEPA is started – people who make comments that other alternatives were dismissed without study are going to find FHWA may actually agree ad require those alternatives .. so why not do it – possibly for the I-95 corridor from Rt 17 Stafford to Rt 17 Massaponax… ?

If the McDonnell administration is going to possibly be successful at tolling I-95 and their stated reason is to improve the road – then I-95 through Fredericksburg certainly ought to be a priority.

A advanced – study – in hand… could be “ready” to receive state funds… 

in short …well.. not so short… we ought to be looking at I-95 and the major primary roads that serve the Rt 17/Rt 3 environs more holistically …  

full disclosure.. I also serve on the FAMPO citizens TAG.

I think maybe the bigger issue than “whether the toll road” might be “HOW the toll road”. I have concern about the county’s use of eminent domain for the land, as well as the fact that the only proposed exit is to Central Park- in the City of F’berg! That means that all the Spotsy businesses along Rt 3, including Spotsy Towne Center, would get a lot less traffic and the county would lose sales and meals tax money.

I guarantee people would pay the $1 to avoid the traffic. Guaranteed. And whenever you see Steve Thomas comment against something, do the opposite because he is always wrong–and I mean always.

I disagree with you on both points Larry. This county does not have a sterling past in regards to respect for property rights. I’d like to see those protected. And much of the Rt 3 business community is retail. Less traffic means less sales for them. Remember, the original justification for the interstate roads system was the commerce clause of the Constitution. There is a strong tie-in between roads and commerce, as there should be.

you can disagree Steve but you’re wrong.  Commerce is NOT ruining the road for access to business.

the interstate highway system is protected from such things with a strict access management policy that explicitly prevents businesses from using it directly.

the purpose of roads is to MOVE traffic INCLUDING goods and services NOT to serve businesses.

Virginia has an access management policy… you should educate yourself on why that policy exists and how it works.

once you indicate to me that you understand what Access Management is, we could probably agree but you are ignorant of the fundamental purpose of roads – like I-95 and Primary Roads in Va – to provide MOBILITY for Commerce and not to ruin the road of providing that purpose – which leads to BYPASSES.. a tremendous waste of resources and tax dollars.

but let’s ask the candidates…also

Then I guess we agree to disagree Larry. Which is ok.

re: disagree…

it’s an important issue – and the candidates should weigh in on it.

I doubt very seriously that most folks would support a complete and total ban on the use of eminent domain once they realize the implications.. but it’s something those who contemplate being an elected official should tell the voters how they feel – and let voters decide if they agree.

how about it?
 

re: high standards….  your response is BLATHER…

tell me what the county did wrong – BE SPECIFIC

and tell me what the policy should be different – SPECIFICALLY

if you want to have an election issue -you have to be responsible enough to be specific about it and not use generic sound-bite ideas for your “issue”.

what exactly has Spotsy done – different/worse than all counties in the Va -that the Va Code allows or does not.

the question for candidates is this: do you oppose any/all forms of eminent domain because it takes away property rights?

what reasons would you give to support the use of eminent domain? 
 

Steven my boy, you play the victim so well.
You’re smarter than you let on. I just wish you’d show it.
It occurs to me you use the FLS to grandstand your political nothing-ness. You give no creedence to anything but your agenda and soundbites of a conservative statehood.
Tell us why!, not just the subject regurgitated ad nauseum. Smallmindedness will get you no-where in November.

Steve make the rookie mistake of equating “commerce” with “businesses”.

Commerce is the movement of goods and services ….and in order for commerce to work – you have to preserve the transport utility of the roads.

and it does not have to be an either/or proposition.

there are LOTs of businesses that prosper and do well but at the same time DO NOT ruin the utility of the transport infrastructure.

imagine what would happen to I-95 if we allowed curb cuts… for businesses…

it would be GREAT for business but very bad for the interstate, eh?

there is a balanced approach – and it’s called Access Management and it’s goal is to allow access to businesses but preserve the road also.

they are doing this on Route 3 right now as we speak.

they are going to be closing some median crossovers…. extending left turn lanes at major traffic signals – and encouraging intra-parcel connections (which by the way is a policy for the county also).

Steve is …as usual.. looking at the issue from an ideological view ….not a practical one.. and not one based on knowledge of why ..for instance.. I-95 does not like curb cuts…

Tell you what Jeff. Since you’ve said nothing on any issue since the comments were turned back on, and you seem so intent on calling me out, why don’t you give us your solutions/views/opinions on the issues of the day- not just attacking me personally. If you do that, then I’ll reply in kind.

I don’t know about our candidates Larry, but that is not a bad point. In yesteryears when local governments were hopelessly corrupt and the state somewhat less so, this system might have made some sense. Now I’m not so sure.

re: personal attacks..   on Steve and others.

not cool and not welcome.

stick to the issues… and stop attacking people.

there is precious little daylight on a lot of issues between myself and Steve but attacking him as a person is wrong.

the forums get ruined by those who cannot restrain themselves and keep to the issues.

it puts extra work on folks like Amy and it really is childish.

Jeff.. when you do that.. you actually derail… things….a bit… and it emboldens others to jump in .. and at that point – it’s just a food fight…and anyone else that was lurking and had something to say.. they leave also.

As I said.. there’s not a whole lot that Steve and I nor you agree on ..but as long as we stay focused on the issues – the ball is in Steve’s court to answer… 

when it gets personal.. Steve no longer feels any responsibility to answer…

that’s my 2 cents worth and I acknowledge that it is one guys opinion..you’re entitled to yours..and I’m sure others reading here also have views.. and my only hope is that we can have more than 2 or 3 folks blathering… 

and that was the hope for an online forum…

but if the online forum ends up being just another way for folks to launch person attacks (as they were doing at Logans Town Hall meeting).. then it’s a waste…

cut Steve a little slack..

I was not in attendance last night either, was home with my son. I found out about that event the same way most people did, I read Amy’s article.

My position on this issue is more nuanced than just simply for it or against it. Don’t try to put words in my mouth (now who’s lying?).

Logan is actually the Republican nominee, he is of my party! He won the nomination fair and square in a legally called mass meeting and has the Republican spot on the ballot in Courtland. I had to travel to Richmond to certify him in person before the SBE and everything.

well Mr. Logan got ripped good from the lady involved in the Mall Connector road controversy and others wanted to know his view about the county using imminent domain and clearly were opposed to the use of  imminent domain at all… implied that any use of it was a violation of property rights.

Candidates for office need to say what their views are on imminent domain.

a reasonable position is that it is necessary in some cases and an unreasonable position is that it can never be justified – in my view.

but in no way should candidates be allowed to weasel an answer … and evade providing their view on it if they are, in fact, seeking to represent citizens in an elected capacity.

when you run for office -you need to step up and say who you are and what you support and what you don’t …

we already have too many people in office that don’t vote like they campaign… so I would expect Steve to agree that we need honesty in the candidates… 

For those of you talking aboout Spotsylvania Parkway and trying to compare it with “eminent domain” you are way off of base. The Parkway was not obtained through the eminent domain process.The Parkway was built by the developer as part of the proffer process. The millions of dollars spent to build the Parkway didn’t cost the taxpayers one penny, and the roadway wasn’t built due to “eminent domain.”

Amy: did any one person responding to your blog invitation ever answer your question: “Driving on Rt 3 in rush hour is like…?” Did you gain anymore insight into the TOLL ROAD issue than your bloggers provided in a 4 way conversation that at times spanned the globe? Why didn’t this conversation even include measued growth that is anticipated by Fredericksburg, Stafford and Spotsylvania that is already planned for within the next 5-10? What impact will their UDAs be on transportation when high density populations take root. Are we planning for the guess work numbers that come with FAMPO’s 2035 landuse and transportation strategies, when, in all likelyhood the elected leaders of this City and Counties are planning to fill up a lot of space within the next 5-10 years, not 20 or thirty.

We can talk about Toll Roads and expanding I-95 until we’re all blue in the face, but with anticipated high density population growth, which will only bring us back to the same point and details that are being discussed from yesterday’s extrapolation of what the Regional landscape will look like in the next 10 years, all that will be accomplished here is establishing another footnote for yet more poor planning strategies.

It must also be established that Larry Gross is the “company man” among us and always will be. He’s using the same dialogue and drumbeat he used as far back as the last 4 years, just as he’s done with those folks who showed up at Supv. Logan’s meeting with a lot of emotional baggage that needed to be vented, but characterized by Larry as totally unnecessary and not on the point he wishes to make and pretending there is only one way to conduct business…his way.

If he is so against what other people think and do in there own behalf, how can we ever expect to reason with a single sided interpretion of things to come?